Dear Brother Mike,

I thought I had sent this last night, but discovered this morning that it had gone into my outbox instead. This was right after I found your email you sent yesterday about 6 PM which referred to Bro Bob's views on the subject, and his likely response. Yes, I too got the impression that he thought a lot of me. I enjoyed corresponding with him, and regard Elder Marion Roberts very highly also as being a very able gifted and spiritual man.

Dear Brother,

As I said before, eschatological and/or end- times doctrines on the bare face of them do not concern me that much; for one to entertain these things in a mere notional way is to me more like science-fiction, than it would manifest a sincere spiritual inquiry and good hope through grace of Christ and Heaven. However; when it comes to the experimental import of the scriptural word of truth as these principles operate in the heart and experience of God's tempted and tried children, this is another matter with me; For example, if I see in the scriptures, and feel that the Apostle Paul is speaking of the things of the present experience of the believer in this (spiritual) life, what good is it for me to attempt to take his language and context and move it (exclusively) to a far -off place which even unbelievers can appreciate as an entertaining story for the natural mind.

For instance, in Rom. 8:11: " But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

It seems to me that anyone that has any spiritual understanding of the context of Paul's writings here would keep the same in harmony with this verse, and not "change horses in the middle of the stream", so to speak. Why would the Apostle change the subject from an experimental one to an historical one that was to take place sometime in the near or perhaps very far away future? - Besides this, the integral language of the statement itself will not support such an interpretation. As some have pointed out, Paul was not speaking of believers as being physically dead, but dead as in a sense of being powerless in their mortal flesh, which is depraved because of sin in it's members. Sin has incapacitated their mortal flesh, or body so to speak, so they cannot do the things that they would. The flesh wars against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh, and these are contrary the one to the other, and this is the death that he is primarily referring to is my opinion, and they are hence brought into bondage by this warfare as he has been stating before in the 7th Chapter.

(The believer's body, or flesh, as it is represented as being carnal and sinful - is dead to the things of the Spirit); therefore the child of God is not able to perform the things of the Spirit within their mortal flesh which is still subject to the experience of guilt and death in Adam, though they have been raised with Christ to walk in the newness of the Spirit, and have put off the old man which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts - This every born- again child of God finds in their daily experience.

Paul has not changed the subject matter found in chapter 7 of Romans in chapter 8 of Romans - there were no chapters there when he wrote the epistle. The subject matter of Rom 8 is a continuation of the theme of Chapter 7. Paul's "body of death" in Chap 7 is the same as his "mortal bodies" in 8:11. To be mortal means to be subject to death, and not actually in a state of death itself, especially in a state of corporal or physical death. God's regenerated and believing children are in a state of both living and dead in their present experience; their spirit is alive through Christ's Eternal Spirit and intercession within them, but their flesh is yet dead (powerless to perform righteousness of itself) because of sin yet within it.

The language of the apostle here is the same as his language in many other places in his epistles. Listen to Paul: (in Rom 6:7). " For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof..."
Actually, Rom 6:7-12. Rom 8:11 is the same as Rom 6:11. In 2 Cor 1:9 the Apostle uses the same language:

"... For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life:
9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:
Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us..."

This deliverance from death is a past, present and future experience of the saints. Perhaps the Apostle and his companions had despaired even of physical life during their troubles in Asia, but I believe that he was speaking primarily of this spiritual experience of death that is now under consideration.

If we do not have the present experience of mortal death working in our members, then can we have an experience of " a daily resurrection"; and if we have no experience of a daily resurrection with and in Christ, then we have no manifest evidence of hope of a final and future resurrection when this corruptible that shall finally and forever put on that immortality that is even now swallowed up in the Life of Christ's Spirit when He manifests His Life in us as The Hope of Glory, which is Himself, working in us that which is well-pleasing in His sight.

Now, the experience of these things is present with God's children, and manifests that Hope which shall culminate in Eternal Reality; for we even now have the earnest of our inheritance with the saints, as these principles are operating within in us, which is truly Christ in us, the Hope of Eternal Glory, which will in our experience, as being creatures of time, and from our created or time-creature perspective will come into a future and full reality with us in those eternal realms prepared for us in the Mind of God from all or in Eternity.

It is true that our body is presently mortal, both from a purely physical and biological stand point, and also from the standpoint of the principles that I have attempted to point out. When our mortal, physical body has dissolved in death, we have hope of putting on a spiritual, immortal body. "There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. " These bodies are distinct. "This mortal must put on immortality" - both in the present spiritual experience of the saints, and in the final and transcending glorious final reality of it; When death, including the death of this physical body, shall be swallowed up in the final victory, we will then triumphantly say- (even as we can now say from time to time as we receive the earnest of this Eternal Legacy): " O Death where is thy sting? O Grave, where is thy victory? - and even as we can now say in our present experience of our glorious deliverance in Christ: "...The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. ..but thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ... 1 Cor 15:56-57.

The Apostle by the Holy Ghost again expresses the same sentiments when he says in 1 Cor 15:19-21: "... If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive..."

Every quickened child of Grace has a manifest hope of not only the life that now is (both spiritually and naturally), but they certainly do realize that this life will terminate in corporal death of their mortal existence. They are also made to realize that in their spiritual experience as the called of Jesus Christ to a life of not only joy and peace in Him, they must also suffer in their mortal flesh the same as Jesus Himself did - though with the present experience of their own sin, which He daily takes away by His superabounding life within them: "..Because I live, Ye shall live also..." "I am come that they might have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.." - For If the sufferings of Christ abound in them, so their consolation abounds in them by His Spirit also. If the Lord Jesus, Who was their Great Represenative, Elder Brother, and Redeemer has not arisen (in their room and stead) from this place of sin and death, then they have no hope nor assurance that they will rise either.

These things can always be viewed both in the spiritual experience of them, and in the final great Hope and consummation of them in Eternal Glory:

"...But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins..." 1 Cor 15

At any rate, as everyone has received the word, let them so minister, and they that may be perceived as being weak in the faith, receive, but not to doubtful disputations (Rom 14), as these disputes among brethren to not make for peace, but rather they usually make more pieces among us.

I have been called a non-resurrectionist, (which I am not), a no-heller, universalist, etc, because I cannot conform my thoughts to the mere surface of these things, which is to me far too superficial for my taste.

As far as preterism goes, as you pointed out in your article, several of the Old School brethren of the past were some kind of preterists. Most that were, That I have perused, I would mostly consider to be what is now called FULL preterists more or less, (if I understand the term in any degree of correctness).

You named three or four , including Elders Ker and Lefferts. Purington seems to me to be a mixture, at least at the time he wrote the article that was printed by Brother Dodson in his book on the resurrection - or he seemed to be a partial preterist anyway. As you know, Elder Dodson was more complete, consistent and especially more assertive in presenting his views on the subject, and did prolifically publish them, though most were opposed to his views at the time, as they generally are so even now. Again, as you pointed out, Dodson seemed a very tolerant man; as an example of this he published the book, The Resurrection of The Dead, which presented several different and seemingly conflicting views upon the subject. To illustrate his fairness, I understand that he was the sole owner of the Signs of the Times paper, having purchased it from Beebe's sons. Being an independent publisher, he could have exercised his prerogative to publish what views he pleased without violating the rights of the Old School Baptists. No doubt he did this out of consideration and love to and for those that he felt to be his brethren and the children of God.

As far as the so-called "orthodox" view of the resurrection - that is, the personal or physical? return of Christ in a bodily form - a literal and physical restoration of biological bodies being re-assembled from the physical elements of nature, and then compelled to stand before God and Christ in a "Great White Throne" general judgment composed of all of Adam's human race, both of the just and unjust - I have no doctrinal objection to as concerning God's Absolute Power , as He being omnipotent and able to perform these things as The Sovereign over His creation; but I do have a personal objection from my sentimental human standpoint, though I hope I realize my personal feelings are beside the point in this discussion.

My present objection to this whole idea that is held and received by most is that I cannot find this idea substantiated in the Scriptures when I compare "spiritual things with spiritual" (things). I have always seen the "sheep and goats" separation as taking place NOW, that is, during the Gospel dispensation. This truth has always been very obvious to my mind since I felt to have been given a hope and spritual understanding of the truth as it is in Jesus. "In that day" - what day? the gospel day. He will gather all NATIONS, (NOT ALL mankind) -neither does Christ call them "sheep and goats" as such, but only presents the parable as an illustration -"as a shepherd divides the sheep from the goats "- most certainly, The Almighty Creator has the sovereign right and Divine prerogative to "do what He will with His Own" creation as Lord and Maker of all, but the question is, is this parable referring to a "General Judgment". or to a dispensational one. I think the whole thing is a dispensational judgment that came upon the world of mankind composed of those whom are called to the glory of the gospel kingdom, or the church, compared with those who are not called, and that according to the sovereign will and purpose of God in Christ; the carnal Jews composing most of their nation being the great example and illustration of this principle. A call by Divine Grace to the Gospel kingdom is a gift of God, and heads up all other subordinate spiritual gifts that are given by the authority and power of the Holy Spirit - "Not many mighty after the flesh (are) called".

The natural Jew was used first by God in this way, and as an illustration, as being first in demonstrating the mercy of God in Christ upon both the Jew and Gentile in graciously providing some of them with His Gospel, (Although the free mercy of God was many times shown to both Jew and Gentile in the case of the Ninevites and gentiles in general, as Paul upon Mar's Hill stated; For there is no difference in the Jew and Greek, because God is rich unto all that call upon Him - but how shall they call upon Him in Whom they have no true spiritual love for, trust in as their Heavenly Father, and therefore do not truly believe in as God, their consummate Savior and their Heavenly and loving Benefactor until He has but His grace with the spirit of adoption into their hearts?

This is growing too long for an email and is only an introduction to some of my thoughts upon the subject, only having scratched the surface.

Now I hope to submit these thoughts in humbleness, and in a spirit of meekness, considering myself as not separate, but joined with my brethren. These thoughts are my own, knowing I am still very imperfect, yet carrying about this body of sin and death, and in many things do still err and offend, and that I could be totally wrong in trying to discuss the great things of this wonderful mystery of the resurrection of the dead. Let us walk in the light as God gives us to see the light is my humble prayer, I trust.

I welcome your comments. OAB